Robert Kenward, chief talent officer and co-founder of YOU search & select, reveals what interviewing has taught him about men and women - and why he wants to be an ally...
The theme for International Women's Day this year is equity. This means acknowledging that everyone is different
and everyone has different needs in order to reach equality.
Obviously, men and women are
equal but they are very different – especially when it comes to interviewing and salary
negotiations. In all my years of recruitment, I have come across many men earning six
figures who are paid more for time served rather than their output, but not one woman.
Think
about that; I’ve never interviewed a single woman earning six figures who didn’t deserve it;
who wasn’t experienced enough, or wasn’t shouldering the responsibility that comes with a
six-figure salary. But I have met hordes of men who are paid extremely well for positions that
simply didn’t warrant it. I have also met loads of women who are underpaid when compared
to their male counterparts.
Why is this?
Sadly, much of this comes down to salary negotiations. Salary negotiation can be seen as
awkward and uncomfortable, but on the whole, men tend to be far better at doing it than
women, and this contributes to the pay gap. I’m not saying that employers are out to get
women and low ball them on purpose; but I am saying that if there is a salary bracket, a
woman will often pitch herself at the lower or mid-end whilst a man will aim high.
Underpaid
Last year I was interviewing for a senior role with a salary bracket of £100-130k. I had two
prime candidates; a woman and a man. In my opinion the woman was far more qualified and
experienced and was the better candidate, but she was currently on a salary of £80k and
looking at the £100k end. I knew this because she immediately told me what she was on,
even though I specifically didn’t ask. Instead, I asked her what salary she wanted from the
new position.
The man was far less experienced and in a less pressured and senior role, but
he had asked for £130k even though it was a reduction on his current £150k salary. I could
have put her forward suggesting that the £100k was a good leap for her (and a win for the
client), but I didn’t, because the fact that she was underpaid by her current employer should
not have any bearing on her worth to her new employer.
Another difference I see when recruiting is a woman will tell you where she’s gone wrong,
while a guy will tell you what he’s done right. Women may also feel compelled to answer a
question because they feel they have to. I always give the following advice; if you’re asked a
question and you don’t understand it, ask the interviewer to frame it another way. Don’t say
that you don’t understand it, instead say ‘sorry could you frame that another way for me, just
so I better understand?’ or drill down and ask another question to find out more.
I’ve never
had a woman drill down on me in an interview. Never, not once. A man will say ‘no, I don’t
really get that – what are you saying?’ whereas a woman will start answering, and then
might answer it in the wrong way.
Hierarchy
I don’t think that women always have a lack of confidence, but that the differences stem from
the hierarchy that can create a male dominated work place culture. We are all aware there
are people who think that if a guy asks for a pay rise he’s a go-getter, but if a woman asks,
she’s a pain in the butt. If a guy shouts at someone, he’s passionate; if a woman does it,
then she’s a ball-breaker or an alpha female.
Unfortunately, the work place is still hung up on
the out-dated concept that the woman stays at home while the guy goes to work. Equity is acknowledging that in the majority of families, women are still the primary child
carers. This means that companies have to provide equitable help based around flexible and
home working.
We also need more employers to add more female focused benefits to
packages – the only thing I tend to see is maternity leave, but menstrual symptoms and
menopause can greatly impact on women and their working lives and we need to be aware
of this and be equitable in our approach and understanding.
I understand what an ally is and an ally is there to speak up and be part of the conversation,
not sitting on the side-line. I certainly don’t want to come across as making sweeping
generalisations or being patronising. I am writing this based on my experiences and in order
to hopefully help and to be an ally.
I hope that my thoughts and experiences are taken that way and prove useful to a few
people.
